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North Carolina

North Carolina, Virginia move towards Obama

Posted by FleetAdmiralJ on September 26, 2008
Status Update / No Comments

New polling has pushed North Carolina from Weak McCain back into the Too Close To Call category, pushing down McCain’s official number down to 158, and increasing the Too Close To Call number up to a record 178 electoral votes, a full third of all Electoral Votes available.

Meanwhile, new polls in Virginia has finally pushed that state from lean McCain to lean Obama, and increasing Obama’s Electoral Count with leaners to 286-252.  However, Obama’s lead in the state stands at 0.1%, so any poll showing McCain ahead should push it back into lean McCain.

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What’s the Matter with North Carolina?

Posted by FleetAdmiralJ on September 18, 2008
General / No Comments

Recent telephone polling in North Carolina has been so unbelievable that it’s hard to figure out how one can even get such results.

In the past six telephone surveys - all of which were at least started no later than September 6th - have the following results:

  • McCain +20
  • McCain +4
  • McCain +3
  • McCain +17
  • McCain +11
  • McCain +1

At first when the first 3 polls came out, and we had +4, +3, and +20, it was naturally assumed that the +20 poll was an outlier.  Then we got the +17 poll and we had two pairs of polls diametrically opposed to each other.  Now after today, we have two threesomes of polls which are diametrically opposed to each other.

However, when one looks at it closely, one can actually see how we can get the results that we do (or at least make them more plausible).  Here are those polls with the margin of error with 95% confidence, applied to both candidates (remember, the first number would be O+moe and M-Moe and the second number is O-Moe and M+moe, thus why a poll with a 4% MOE has a 16% margin):

  • McCain +12.4% to +27.6%
  • Obama +3.8% to McCain 11.8%
  • Obama +5% to McCain +11%
  • McCain +9% to McCain +25%
  • McCain +3% to McCain +19%
  • Obama +6% to McCain +8%

Taking these ranges, we get two pretty plausible ranges that the polls may fall into.  Both ranges include 4 of the 6 polls.

The first range leaves the best poll for McCain and the worst poll for McCain out of the mix.  If we do this, the four middle polls all fall into a range between 9% and 11% within their 95% confidence level.  The two remaining polls fall outside this range by only 1% and 1.4%

The second range takes the 4 most pro-Obama polls.  In this case, the range would be between McCain +3 and McCain +8 within their 95% confidence level.  It’s quite a big larger range, and the two polls left out are left out by 1% and 4.4%.

Obviously McCain wold prefer the 11% number while Obama wold prefer the 3% number, but i think the truth is somewhere inbetween, and the lead probably sits somewhere between 7% and 8% right now (my average has it at 7.9%).  In any case, for those who are desperate to know where North Carolina stands, we can probably say it stands somewhere between McCain +3% and McCain +11%.  Which of course is the difference between being a Too Close To Call state and being a Strong McCain state, so needless to say the range is pretty useless.

Also, having at minimum 1/3 of the polls as outliers, no matter how you cut it, is still a bit much.  And there is also another point here: there are in a way two type of outliers.  There are statistically significant outliers and polls which aren’t statistical outliers, but are effectively outliers.

This is what I mean:

If you have 5 polls, all with a margin of error of 4%, all showing a race of between 2% and 4%, and then a poll comes out with someone 22% ahead with a margin of error of 4%, there is no way that the 22% poll and any of the 5 other polls can jive and still all be within all of their 95% confidence levels.  I would consider that a statistical outlier.

But let’s say a poll came out which showed a race of 15% with a margin of error of 4%.  Given the exercise above, one could say “well, even the closest poll could possibly have a real margin of up to 10% while the 15% poll could be as low as 7%, so where’s the problem?”  Of course, the issue here would be: what are the chances that you have 5 polls whose results are between 2% and 4% when the actual margin is between 7% and 10%?  Sure, it’s possible, but it becomes quite a bit less likely.  It would make more sense to say that the 15% poll is effectively an outlier, even if it isn’t statistically one.

So where does North Carolina come into this?  In my example above with the two ranges for the NC polls, we’re kind of treading into the territory of the “effective outlier.”  The problem is that the 3 polls showing a race within 5%, the poll showing a 11% race, and the two polls showing a near or at 20% race are all effectively outliers of each other (not to mention that we’re guaranteed at least 2 statistical outliers as well).

But unlike the example above with 5 close polls and a 15% poll, enough polls are in each camp that we just can’t know which group of polls consists of the outliers.  Even though the 11% poll is by itself, it’s still taking up the middle ground between the two other groups.

My current score for North Carolina as of this writing - 7.9% - is 3.1% away from any of the six polls.  How oven do you have an average of polls where the average is so far away frm the results of any of the polls in the average?  Yet that’s what we have.

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CNN polls: Obama ahead in OH, WI. McCain ahead in IN, NC. Florida tied.

Posted by FleetAdmiralJ on September 17, 2008
CNN, New Polls, Status Update / No Comments

Five new CNN polls show possible movement back towards Obama in several states, as Obama has his first tie or lead in Florida in 5 polls, his first lead in Ohio in 9 polls, and the 3rd poll within 4% in North Carolina in the past 6 (as compared to the other three which all give McCain double-digit leads.  What’s going on in North Carolina?)

Despite general movement towards Obama, McCain’s numbers are the ones which improved on the official board as his 6% lead in Indiana was just enough to move it from Too Close to Call to Weak McCain.  No other states changed status, however.

We have so many polls coming out now that it is quite difficult for any single poll to switch a state which, of course, is good since it’s better to have a broad sample of several polls instead of a situation where a single outliar poll pushes states like Illinois or Louisiana into “Weak” territory when they probably have no business being there.

I should note (and I should add this to the Methodology page sometime) that CNN did release results for both Obama vs. McCain head-to-head as well as polls including third parties.  Obama either had the same margin or improved in every state when 3rd parties were included, going so far as going from a tie in Florida with the head-to-head to being 4% ahead with 3rd parties.

My policy has been that if a polling agency releases a poll where there is one with 3rd parties and one without, I take the straight head-to-head because of my belief that most polls overstate support for 3rd party candidates.  Of course, if they only offer a poll which includes 3rd parties, I’ll use it, but I don’t record the results for the 3rd party candidates.

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New ARG poll out: Mixed Results

Posted by FleetAdmiralJ on September 17, 2008
ARG, New Polls, Status Update / No Comments

American Research Group has released their first round of state polling, and it’s somewhat a mixed bag for Obama.

First off, the results seemed skewed a bit towards McCain overall, with North Carolina being +11, Ohio being +6, and Illinois of all places being only Obama +6, enough to push move it from Strong Obama to Weak Obama, just because there aren’t many polls there.

Two McCain states caught my eye themost, though:

The first was Montana, which ARG gives McCain by only 2%, and which puts it in line with polls pre-convention.  This puts into question whether Rasmussen’s post-convention poll was an outlier or not.  We’ll probably need yet another poll, preferably from a third polling company, to find out.  For the time being, Montana is back to Weak McCain from Strong McCain.

The second was West Virginia which has now had two recent polls showing it to be only +5 and +4 for McCain, pushing it unbelievably into the Too Close To Call category.  Can we actually call West Virginia a battleground state now?  This

Louisiana also seemed closer than one would expect, only +7 for McCain, but I kind of see that as McCain’s Illinois - a poll showing a state to be much closer than I actually think it is.  I won’t actually believe Louisiana to be that close until another poll confirms it.  Nevertheless, like Ilinois, due to sparse polling, Louisiana moves from Strong McCain to Lean McCain.

Texas also moves from Weak McCain to Strong McCain, a move I’ve kind of been expecting for a while.

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